Wednesday, 27 May 2009

Hope Not Hate

In a week, Britain will be going to the polls. If the BNP win a seat in the European Parliament they'll be catapulted from the fringes into the political mainstream and given access to unprecedented media coverage and state funding.

But we can stop this happening. We simply need to tell people the truth about the BNP and the threat that they pose.

You can join the facebook group

To do this, we've launched a new tool on the HOPE not hate
websitethat lets you find campaign events in your area. We're asking for two hours of your time. At present there are over 100 events across the country and in the coming weeks we'll be adding to this substantially - rolling out the largest ever campaign to stop the BNP.

There's nothing more powerful than having ordinary people going out into their communities, talking about the threat the BNP pose and how important voting is. That's why your help is so important - and how HOPE will defeat hate. But none of this will happen by chance. It will happen because good people across the country take a stand and act against hate. Will you give two hours to the campaign?

Last week Nick Griffin described immigration as a "bloodless genocide." He said that black and Asian Britons "don't exist." There are some things in life that are too big for us to stop and change. This isn't one of them. I'm offering you the chance to stop Nick Griffin - will you campaign with me? Sign up for your nearest event now.

Over the coming weeks, we're asking our supporters to donate two hours of their time. You'll be knocking on doors or helping to deliver anti-racist leaflets and newspapers. Together we'll contact the millions and millions of voters who will ultimately decide if the BNP win in June.

I've said from the beginning that our strength will ultimately come from our supporters. We don't have big financial backers. We don't have hundreds of paid staff. What we have is hope - and you.

Will you give two hours to stop the BNP? Sign up now:

Find out about events near you

* The BNP would kick out all those people who were not born in Britain. What if every other country in the world kicked out the Brits? A staggering 5.5 million people would be sent back here – far more than would leave our shores. This includes 800,000 from Spain, most of whom are pensioners.
* If non-white people were ordered out of Britain then the NHS would collapse overnight. 16% of nurses are from minority ethnic communities, as are 40% of new dentists and 58% of new doctors!
* The BNP would introduce apartheid into Britain. The BNP call for whites to be given first preference in housing, education and jobs. This is no different from apartheid South Africa, a racist regime which the BNP supported.
* Mixed-race relationships would be outlawed. The BNP constitution opposes any racial integration. Articles in BNP journals condemn mixed-race relationships as “mongrelising the white race”.
*The BNP’s answer to violent crime is to allow every household to have a gun. We kid you not. This barmy idea was in the BNP’s 2005 general election manifesto.

The Hope not Hate

See also; bristling badger,
and Peter Cranie


howard thomas said...

The problem is not the BNP which would whither and die without the 'fuel' that our big 3 parties provide for it in abundance.
Most of the people that will vote for the BNP are not at all racist ,but they are seriously peed off by the fact that the big 3 parties refuse to do anything about the immigration issue.
This country is now the most densely populated in Europe and there has to come a point when the UK is full---like it or not we are only a small island with limited resources and space, and we cannot continue to accomodate all of the people in the world that would like to come and live here.
By ignoring the issue the main parties have created circumstances in which a party like the BNP can prosper.
Sad though it may be the only way that the big boys will wake up to reality is when the BNP do very well, which it would appear is on the cards now.
A good poke with a BNP stick is probably what is required for the next government to take action .
We would suggest that immigration is limited to no more people entering the country than the number of people that leave.
That would limit the population growth to a manageable figure.
There are , however many other effects of immigration that need to be addressed, too many to go in to right now.

Adrian Windisch said...

I'm very disappointed in your response Howard, we get this line from the right wing media but its just not true. There are no 'natives', were are descended from immigrants here. Immigrants are not scroungers, but hard working people seeking to better themselves and their families.

For your information Holland has a far higher population density. Its funny how people on the right are all for free markets but want to restrict the movement of people.

Hope not hate.

howard thomas said...

Adrian, England passed Holland last year in terms of density of population, and even if you include the wilds of Scotland in the equation we (the UK ) is still the 3rd most densely populated country in Europe.
I know the arguement about all Brits being the sons and daughters of immigrants,but that is not the point. The fact is that that there has to be a limit to population growth in such a small country.To go on as we are will mean that housing will have to be built on the green belt, which is I am sure a subject that must be close to your heart.
I did poke this question at Alok Sharma the other day, as he is forever campaigning to stop houses being built here and there. Where are these constant additions to our population going to live and work?
One of the biggest problems facing people of all nationalities in the UK is the basic cost of accomodation, which I would describe as eye-watering.David Cameron spoke of "general well being " meaning that quality of life is sometimes more important than money, but better quality of life is pretty hard to achieve when ever rising amounts of money are needed simply to keep a roof over ones head.
I fully realise that immigration is not the only cause of accomodation price inflation and I would never blame the immigrant themselves for trying to have a better life ,but the fact remains that we are a small island and there has to come a point of 'full'.
Your comment "immigrants are not scroungers but hard working people" misses the fact that although this is true of many immigrants, there are also a considerable number who abuse the system and who do cost us all .
I always go out of my way to tell the facts the way that they are, no matter how uncomfortable that may be. This is what makes the difference between us and the big 3 parties.

Adrian Windisch said...

So one minute your arguing about the UK population, then when I pointed out that it has a lower population density than the Netherlands, you switch to England! Of course you include the 'wilds of Scotland', they are part of the country.

You are correct I dont want any building on the green belt. There are better solutions to housing shortages than this or expelling people, such as using empty homes/ second homes/ empty office blocks. You can break the rise of house prices with land value tax.

howard thomas said...

I wasn't trying to muddy the water by mentioning England, but simply to clarify what I mean by the most densely populated country in Europe.
If the SNP get their way we will be 2 completely separate countries!
The bottom line is that we are a very crowded country and there has to come a point when we are full,which I would say we have reached.
As for "expelling " people, the only ones that ought to be thrown out are those that have no right to be here , namely failed assylum seekers and illegals.!
Perhaps you might like to enlighten me on how a land tax would help to solve house accomodation price inflation.

Adrian Windisch said...

But if we are full, what of the countries you are finally admitting are more crowded? And what of the empty buildings I mentioned in my last post? I would rather see them used than empty, it kills local shops to have homes empty.

I want people when they hear this issue not to think 'immigrants are scroungers' as usually presented by the media; but rather they are people like us, and the same as our ancestors.

howard thomas said...

Houses being left empty is ridiculous when there are large numbers of people that need homes.
There are ( I believe) laws that allow council to take over/fix/rent out unused properties---they should be used.
Also there have been many properties bought off plan and quite deliberately kept empty while waiting for the price to rise-----this has been quite a large percentage of new fls in some cities. Severe taxation would end such practises---houses are for living in!
There are countries more crowded than England-----Bangladesh,South Korea, Taiwan and Palastinian territories----do we have an ambition to move up the table I wonder?

I was reading the Green party website earlier on and came accrss this---"However our economy should not be one that is dependant on inward migration,as this results in more overcrowding, qualified workers being poached from poorer countries and exploited labour in the grey economy"
Other references to our 'ecological footprint' suggest that for our population to live within such a footprint we would need vast amounts of extra land.
Increasing the population only makes this worse.
I don't think that most people see all immigrants as scroungers , many are indeed good workers,but there are certainly too many who have no interest in paying their way.
I worked with an Estonian man a while ago,who was a fine fellow,but he got fed up and went home. His reason,he didn't mind paying his taxes for the NHS etc, but he was fed up with watching people he knew (English as well as foreigners ) sponging off the state. We lost a good man there !

Adrian Windisch said...

I have never argued for completely open borders, as it is many of our health professionals are poached from countries that also need them. I dislike the portrayal of immigrants as scroungers.

Also we are not full, the Netherlands are far more crowded.

The people saying things like 'we are full up, close the doors' are right wingers like UKIP and the BNP. Do you really want to join them? We want to make better use of the facilities that we have, such as the housing policies I have already mentioned.

Also to reduce traffic,lets get people on public transport, make it better and cheaper. There will never be enough roads or houses the way things are going, resources are limited.

howard thomas said...

Adrian England'passed' the Netherlands last year in terms of density!
I have no intention of joining either the BNP or UKIP, but at the same time I will not shy away from talking about immigration. Shying away is what the big 3 parties do all the time , which is why people will look at the BNP as a party that is prepared to talk about the subject.We all know what they are , but that won't stop decent ,frustrated people voting for them!
"There will never be enough roads or houses " kind of makes my point---we simply don't have the room or facilities to continue on the route that has been government policy for the last decade.
The first problem with public transport is that its far too bloody dear in this country, which makes the car the cheapest and most convenient option.
There are however many other reasons, one of which is personal safety. Many people use their cars rather than public transport because they are then in their own 'space' and not having to risk the potential street crime that public transport is often associated with, which can easily be waiting at a bus stop with undesireable people.
This is obviously a whole new subject regarding law and order and sentencing policies,something which is also currently way of the mark with regard to what the public want.
There are a reasonable proportion of immigrants that are scroungers---as there are English people.Its not a fact that can be ignored for convenience. As I just mentioned , our sentencing is soft and foreign criminals are not slow to realise this!


I'd have to take Howard's side to be honest.

Adrian Windisch said...

Howard, you started saying the UK were the most crowded country in Europe, and used this image to say kick out immigrants. When I showed you were wrong, you changed it to 'England is the most crowded', but your still missing out a large part of our country.

So you agree with me about bringing down the cost of public transport as the way to reduce congestion. Even if you succeed in reducing the population, we would still have too many cars wanting use the roads.

I wish you wouldn't keep using the scare stereotypes of 'scrounging immigrants', when even you admit they are just like the rest of us. Would the health service survive without immigrant workers? Would any indusrtry. Careful what you destroy.

Regarding Land value tax, try

All our ancestors immigrated here, its a great British tradition to welcome them, they add enormously to our culture.

howard thomas said...

Adrian---when it comes to spinning what was said please do not quote me as wanting to chuck out legal immigrants---that is simply not what I said!
The people that need chucking out are the failed assylum seekers and illegal immigrants , neither of whom have any legal status in either England or the UK !!
We all know that most immigrants are good ,hard working people,but for you to refuse to acknollege that there is a significant number of people who come here to play on our generous system is to take a blinkered attitude. Face the truth--some of them do.
When it comes to the people who come here to work ,for example, in our health service , it might be worth bearing in mind that it is cheaper for our government to poach people from other (less wealthy) countries rather than to train them here. Is this right?
Also on the NHS--how many people come here on health tourism---and please don't tell me that it doesn't happen. Getting treated on the NHS is a very easy thing for foreign nationals to achieve once they realise how to go about it.I can't quote figures , because there are none available as far as I know because nobody counts.
What we should be doing in this country is to make it worthwhile for people to go to work and then a lot of these jobs that immigrants come here to do could be done by people who currently(and it better times) can't afford to work.
The reasons for this situation is the fact that accomodation is very expensive in this country compared with wages. Add council tax to the cost of housing , along with the fact that taxation starts at such a low level and you can soon see why there is no incentive for some people to work.
As a remedy I would suggest the abolition of council tax on primary properties,abolish the TV license, raise the starting point of income tax to £250-£300 per week , build large amounts of council housing to provide truely affordable homes and , yes , quell the demand for housing by limiting immigration to no more than the number of people leaving the country.The rate of income tax would have to rise once it kicked in , but care would have to be taken to ensure that anyone on a salary of less than £35 -40,000 was no worse off.There are lots of people in this country that, given the opportunity, are all too capable of doing their share.
As a spin off to that , if rents in general were to come down , councils would have a big financial bonus because their housing benefit claims would fall.RBC spend about £60million on this each year. council tax admin and council tax benefit admin would also be saved ,,RBC about £2.5million.
Before you spot it ,yes, homes that are not primary homes would need to be taxed---at a rate that stopped the owners keeping them empty when so many people need a home.

howard thomas said...

Adrian---sorry about the length of that last comment---I honestly did shorten it!

Adrian Windisch said...

Talk about spin Howard, you claim I said something I didn't say, then misquote me. I said immigrants are just like the rest of us (though they often work harder). Even you admitted this.

I criticize your using the language of hatred, hence the title of the post.

And I don't agree that building millions of new homes is practical or the solution. Where would you build them? Earlier in this thread you spoke of reducing the population of immigrants to reduce housing demand, but you didn't answer my point about second homes, or empty office blocks.

howard thomas said...

If you accuse me of using the "language of hatred"for saying that we have a high enough population in this country and immigration should not be allowed to increase it, then you have quite a strange definition of the word 'hatred'.
One thing that you seem unable to comprehend is that not all immigrants are the same--you simply cannot lump them all into one category which says they are all hard working valuable people---many are (as I have previously stated), but a reasonable number,quite simply, are not.
That is not "the language of hatred" simply stating an observation.
Your point on second homes was answered in as much that I stated that "homes that are not primary homes would need to be taxed at a rate that stopped the owners from keeping them empty"---how is that not an answer.
As regards office buildings that are empty they now attract full business rates---hopefully that might lead to a different approach by those companies that allow this to happen.If it is not worthwhile to build things on spec , then companies won't do it.
As I previously stated I won't duck an issue simply because the truth might be inconvenient---I'm surprised that you didn't bite on the health tourism point.(and no , to mention it is not the language of hatred either!)

howard thomas said...

Something I forgot to answer,,,other than building more houses how would you propose to make accomodation costs affordable to the average person?--as far as I know it works by the supply and demand principle.

Adrian Windisch said...

You use the language of hatred when you refer to immigrants as 'scroungers' or 'spongers' as you do repeatedly.

I've never said all immigrants are all angels, but they are all people just like us. To demonize them is something extremist governments have done for centuries, and can end in deaths.

On house values, I refer you to my link on land value tax, as well as using empty office blocks, discouraging second homes etc.

howard thomas said...

Those that scrounge are scroungers and those that sponge are spongers---- I didn't use those words ---you just have !!!
The only time I used the word sponging was to quote what an Estonian man said to me about why he was going home.----just a bit different to me saying it !!
But the fact remains that there are good and bad in all groups of people.This county is well known for being both soft and generous----why do you suppose migrants risk their lives to get here when they have already 'made it ' to Europe?
And yes , I do know that France, Germany,Italy ,Holland,Spain etc etc all have immigration problems,both legal and illegal.